Fresh blood in pvp

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  • Hey guys,


    wanted to open a thread to talk about pvp in our server. many suggestions have been made lately and some of them are already implemented so it shows to me that the staff cares about pvp and they can take actions quickly.


    i want to point another dimension now. the real issue imo is the number of pvp players. no matter how perfectly you balance the pvp there are only a few people who are doing pvp and it is not ok.


    80% of the nation wars are empty. only 2-3 guys joining lv120 budokan category and all the other categories are just empty. raids are happening maybe once a month. people dont really fight in ochao unless they see a high chance to win it. mid/high-mid guys never do pvp in towns they just farm and farm all the time.


    we clearly need fresh blood in pvp.


    i opened this thread for those who are currently pvm but interested in pvp. if they please to share reasons why they dont do pvp we might fix it and change their minds. what makes them farm to be perfect in pvm only and not pvp? if it takes to make the game easier i would embrace this decision as a high lv player because current situation is very boring and i want it to be changed.


    any comments and ideas especially from pvm players are welcomed. feel free to share your opinion

  • It's a 15ish year old game.

    There's no learning curve nor skill involved in PvP (for the most part)(take this with a grain of salt).

    The difference between casual gameplay and hardcore gameplay is huge - and that's a severe understatement. Take games like ESO and WoW which cannot be ever compared to metin2 - almost any type of approach there ends up in casual PvP. But can you have casual PvP in metin2? My opinion as PvM player is that you can't.

    A couple of things could be done to make PvP more appealing, bust most of them would imply downsizing on the time hardcore players spent on this game. Forbid Alchemy in some PvP events? Sure, can be done - but those that spent 800+ won on a piece would complain, and they have all the right to do so.


    You just can't, imo, do some changes and make PvP casual, regardless of server age. The main reason is that there are/were little to no limitations when it comes to farming. MMOs have daily things that you can do and all that, and slowly minimize the things you can do and get throughout the day (weekly and monthly point caps, for example). Metin2 has no limitations. If you can farm 20 hours a day, you'll do it and every hour will reward you just the same. You can't possibly ask why a casual, 2h/day player would refuse to engage in even small-scale/casual PvP with someone who spends 20h a day farming.


    my 2 cents.


    edit: basically, you play either for fun, to kill some time remembering of childhood or straight out murder this game for around a year, get good at it, then return to it every couple of months or so to farm a bit to make sure you're still on top. Kinda hard to have something in-between.

  • we wonder why players make all the time pvm and not pvm+pvp and we want to know what we can do to make you do pvp. you dont have to be a perfect char to take your role in pvp. it's easy to make a normal pvp char to join some fights and enjoy the pvp. if many guys join like that, the wars will be much better with too many people and everybody will enjoy it.

  • Ok bro I will tell you why.


    Because most of the pvp players are assholes to new players when it comes to pvp. Everyone knows me, I've been doing pvm for quite a while and lately I started making pvp. Obviously I am no match to the elite players since I am nowhere near matching them in items / dss / etc...


    But I started doing pvp, started to join NW. What did I get for it? People started calling me names, trashtalking me, calling me noob/smurf etc...

    The best part is, they start to camp you since you are the weakest link and probably die from 2 skills.


    That's the reason why people don't make pvp. Because it's a long road to perfect it like many other guys here and no one can tolerate all the negativity that's gonna hit him during the road.


    I personally am still trying to join the pvp scene, I just don't want people hating me because of it.


    Cheers.

  • we wonder why players make all the time pvm and not pvm+pvp and we want to know what we can do to make you do pvp. you dont have to be a perfect char to take your role in pvp. it's easy to make a normal pvp char to join some fights and enjoy the pvp. if many guys join like that, the wars will be much better with too many people and everybody will enjoy it.

    Last thing I want is getting 2-shot from some high-end 10-year old character, to be honest - and then have a bunch of people insult me in PM.

    That doesn't usually happen in other MMOs. Even as a fresh max-level in WoW and with a "bit" of game knowledge and mechanics, you can still kill a couple of people and gain some points. I don't even want to mention ESO where PvM prepares you for PvP in the best way possible and there's only skill you have to gain afterwards.


    edit: I mean yes, all those that PvP want more action on the scene, but at the same time they are severely unwelcoming towards newbies and, to top it of, don't back off either. I've rarely seen full alchi people holding back when fighting someone they know as a noob. Even if I have lvl 1 armor and sword, they'll still equip pushes, turn on DSS, bring out their 1v1 class eq... that's not fun.

  • we wonder why players make all the time pvm and not pvm+pvp and we want to know what we can do to make you do pvp. you dont have to be a perfect char to take your role in pvp. it's easy to make a normal pvp char to join some fights and enjoy the pvp. if many guys join like that, the wars will be much better with too many people and everybody will enjoy it.

    I disagree. It's not easy to make a normal pvp char who can compete in any way with those who are currently joining NW.

    He will do 0 damage against them and they will kill him 1hit.

    How is this fun for that person?

  • we wonder why players make all the time pvm and not pvm+pvp and we want to know what we can do to make you do pvp. you dont have to be a perfect char to take your role in pvp. it's easy to make a normal pvp char to join some fights and enjoy the pvp. if many guys join like that, the wars will be much better with too many people and everybody will enjoy it.

    and then someone ends up feeding and it's like:

    OMG GO TO SAFE

    GET OUT OF HERE WE LOSING BECAUSE OF YOU

    OMG DID YOU SEE THAT GUY??? HE SO BAD


    the required process to acquire enough gears combined with the behaviour of some of the older pvp players makes pvp extremely boring and unappealing

  • +8 2 rarity stated pvp armour with 3 res
    +9 5 skill 61 shield faint block demi
    sapphire earrings 3 res 5 demi res
    5 demi class neck +9 with 3 res
    oceanic shoes with 3 4 res (shoes easy to roll)
    100 helmet 5 demi 15 magic + 15 doodge arrow +8
    dss = now legendary dss is very cheap compared to old times
    i think it's cheap.

    Armour and shoes are not hard to roll

    If u have armour and shoes 4res

    U can use for the beginning 3res sapphire earrings and 3res garnet neck

  • Sounds easy.

    But would you do a test and start from scratch right now and see how many weeks/months it takes you to get that EQ? Let's keep in mind that, in order to farm properly for that EQ, you first need to dish around 50-70ish won on a weapon and another 50ish on a sash if you want to farm effectively.

    In the long run, people would rather improve their damage on stones rather than on players.

    Tradition is the corpse of wisdom.

  • totally understand how you feel when you face that toxic behaviour of other players.


    ofc you will be hunted at first. i remember when i joined pvp we lost some wars just because i died too many times than i should because the other kingdom was focussing me a lot. but my guild always embraced me and gave me motivation to improve. i know every high lv pvp player wants more action in game so i truly believe they would do something to encourage new players to join pvp.


    the thing is if many pvm players join pvp the situation will change. if a kingdom has 10 top guys and 1 new guy enters he will be the bait but if 10 not so strong players fight alongside with 10 top guys there will be a fun war cuz it will be hard to focus the weaker guys.


    the pvp is actually easier than it seems. you can look at legendary rarity and 5/5 perfect stated items and think wow thats waste of life to work for it. but you dont really need to have perfect items. you dont have to deal huge dmg also. if you join pvp and you convince one of your friend to join pvp you will deal maybe the half dmg of a top guy together with your friend but it will really improve your gametime and also the situation of pvp. i believe this way we can change things

  • Another problem that should be mentioned are all the pvp boosts.

    Dragon gods, dews, fishes, pvp costumes, and so on.


    Difficult to motivate people for NW if it means they actually lose a lot of money every time just for some minutes of pvp.

  • I was too slow and Melleril said all. Especially post #9.


    This whole thread to me seems like the bully at school that takes the nerd's hand and slap him in the face asking "why are you slapping yourself? Why? Why are you slapping?"


    The reason there is a clear lack of pvp is because the server needs heavy nerfing, a downsize in time needed to roll your items and upgrade DSS. All these changes would cause a major drawback and this is a fact.


    In the past we removed the class vs from being rolled on items because it was simply too much time consuming to roll items such as a necklace and there was little to no chance that a newcomer would become competitive in less than a year, which is not acceptable. Oh and before some smartass comes to tell that he managed or his friend did, exceptions are possible but they are rare, just like the pvpers today.


    Till today they still complain we didn't roll their items with perfect stats "instead of bell i wanted arrow". Well is called a nerf because you lose something not because you gain something better. But thats on me, I should have just deleted the bonus and make it RNG or simply leave items with 4 bonus and let the player add it back.


    Then it came the rarity update. Simply waiting people to drop a good set of pvp rarity by farming and farming and farming and waiting for the RNG to kick in was just too much consuming. Other shit storm, of course not before they stated and rolled their semi-perfect items that is.


    "We are all the same now, new players can come and have the same as I worked for 5 years".


    This is the point, you are all the same and a new player should come and reach that in few weeks of work, otherwise he goes elsewhere where this is possible.


    When you have such experience when you are just trying to improve the situation, you are quite discouraged from doing any other major changes. The reason why Zodiac or other updates are not added, is this. Is not lazyness, is not lack of skill, is not lack of ideas but are just 2 main reasons:

    1) Is pointless to add more contents that only the current population would enjoy, the main reason to the updates are to lure new comers

    2) It is not wise to add new contents when the old one needs balancing.


    The problem is that we cannot balance without removing partialy or totaly the effort you put and there is no way that you guys have the proper maturity to consider that "the power" you have today and may lose if we nerf something, is the same power that you had for years and in terms of MMO is quite a lot.



    TL:DR


    The server needs changes which would damage the time and resource spent by older players, the older they are, the most they lose. Support such changes even those which may damage you or keep as it is but do not complain.

  • TL:DR


    The server needs changes which would damage the time and resource spent by older players, the older they are, the most they lose. Support such changes even those which may damage you or keep as it is but do not complain.

    I think I don't speak only for myself when I say that I'm in favour of any change/nerf that you deem necessary. Nobody wants to play alone in an mmo.

  • Hi, I often do not comment on the topic regarding PVP and the state of the NW, because I just find it pointless and a total waste of time, and most of the threads regarding these things (just like that one - [CHANGE] Put rules in Nation War) just ends up in a clusterfuck, which results in most cases nothing more than a hate.


    Since X years, besides couple of changes that were made to the rules/mechanics of NW and the PVP overall, there was no significant improvement to the gameplay, that would encourage New/mid or even old pvm farmers to take a look at the PVP competition. Sadly, most of the problems comes from many Top players, that refuse to accept new changes, that would make them vulnerable but in the same time would improve the state of the PVP. Literally the same people who are mad and sad about the lack of the competition, just make the same threads all over again, and instead of making a good sugestions they prefere to flame and blame each other which is fucking ridiculous (just look at the many of the previous threads regarding PVP. This thread will turn into bullshit as well probably).


    Anyway, from my perspective there are 3 main problems, that players who want to pariticipate in the pvp must face and changers are needed:


    1) You must have a good pvp gear.


    Well to participate and to have at least little fun, you need to have a good gear. Considering that most of the top players have X sets of gear, Mythic alchemy and S skills, a new player that join with a shitty/decent gear and P skills will be instantly obliterated. There is nothing bad in losing to a better geared players, but dying 15 times in the timespan of 30 seconds without doing any dmg, because your skills and attacks are doing literally nothing and then getting blame and death threads for "feeding" isn't fun either I guess. All the new pvp players need is a Chance. Skill resistance need to be adjusted, at least for NW. If it's possible make a cap, that you can only have 65/70% skill res in the NW and the excess of it turn into something pvp related, so the players that have 90%+ skill res won't be hurt that much. In that case, players with decent gear and P skills could be usefull in some sort of way, but probably many players won't agree to that, coz it will make them vulnerable.


    Also a new feature in NW would be good, some sort of like "Marked" system. Every X second, one of the players in each team is "Marked", they deal 10/15% more damage, receive 10/15% less damage but when they die, they're worth x3/4 points. In that way, people would focus not only the weak players, but the strong ones as well.


    2) Mentality


    As stated above in my post, and by some other people in this/other comment sections. The PVP is mostly a community thing. Made by players, for players. But mostly Top players literally shit on each other for the past X years in every way possible, also blaming new players or telling them to leave the fight if one want to try it out and then sending them stupid shit (death threads e.g.) if they lose (and I'm not talking about the banter). Then you proceed to make a threads that PVP is dogshit and something has to change. And like that, you're just running in a circles for the past X years. Well, where in the fuck is logic in that? With that mentality you do not deserve anything better, new players won't join (as it is right now) and NW + PVP overall will stay dead as it is right now.


    3) Time and progressing


    Well, considering that there are many better MMO's with more populated pvp that you can play, and pvp is achievable in a more pleasant way that requires less time, people tend to stick to them. If PVP is taken here as an endgame and the final goal, it would be good to speed up the progress towards it a little bit. I'm not talking about some huge changes, but for example remaking sacrifice quest. E.g. It could give you an upgrade materials for the PVP items in a small amout. Also Main quests' rewards could be changed. Rewards for the latest quests are bad and most players just don't do them. Instead of things like "curse book", "red/blue/white pearls", "unknown talisman" they could give you some useful PVP items with rarity or good upgrade materials. Since you can do them only 1 time it wouldn't be much of an abuse.


    To close things out. I Think it's just another pointless thread that will fill with hatred and nothing will change. Some people' mentality will stay as it is, and because of that and refusal to improve things, even though when they may render them more vulnerable, I doubt anything will be better regarding that matter. You can make million threads about the improving/suggestions but nothing will improve when you won't do a shit.

    Take care

  • i agree with shadow but i think in the current market items themselfs are easily obtainable but what is not obtainable is dss especially new mythic dss wheel is so crazy to try and make especially if you are not generally lucky ive played this server for a few years now and my only goal is to not suck at pvp and have fun in pvp which i enjoy but as i get closer to being able to pvp new updates set me back i quit once because of it (s skills) now finally the prices of soul stones is somewhat affordable ive managed my first s skill but now i see mythic dss now also needs a few thosuand wons enjoy the new content and dss but the mechanics are so brutal ( i play alot also more then 6 hours a day+ donations) but i dont see it ever happening

    and i know many people who tried 200+ meley runs and not even gotten one superclass and 6 are needed for the bonus another issue is boosters like the fish already so many elements in the game to start fishing and needing a +18 pole to get certain fish is offputting especially when they are so overpowerd just thought id share my opinion ^.^

  • No idea why you all consider boosters the source of all evil. Is not booster the problem here or a fish. Do you think it would take me more than 5 minutes to block all boosters on national war maps? Or do you think it would take me more than 10 minutes to prevent a player who use such boosters on a different map, from joining national war?


    Players don't join national war because they have to spend a lot of golds of boosters. Yes it certantly don't incentivate it, but be sure that boosters or no boosters the situation won't change.


    The mythic wheel was announced at the same day the mythic dss came into the game. We already stated that it would have a set bonus. We didn't implement it right away cause you guys are always unhappy no matter what, and expected that super class legendary would turn into mythic super class or have a better chance at upgrading or some crap like that. I mean such demands are not only arrogant but even unlogical and display a level of ignorance of how the DSS works. Does your sword upgrade to +9 easily if it has perfect bonus and stones?


    We don't put new things to make you guys use 10.000 golds and get the final items, we put so that you can work on them like any normal new player.


    Mythic alchemy can be made easy, I mean the upgrade from Legendary Rank, to Mythic, but the clarity, High, Superclass, that thing, is the same for all kind of DSS. We would need to delete all the legendary and lower stones, reduce the drop from boss, box and other methods and then, with few drops in the game of DSS, we can increase the rates in a way that you won't do 10 sets of mythic from launch to dinner.


    Are you willing to lose your DSS that are not mythic which you worked so hard without bitching for other 10 years? I don't think so.

  • i said boosters are not easily obtainable (requires level 18 pole) and very costly i didnt say its the main reason just offputting, people dont join because there is a massive gap from new players to the old players who have everything me myself have played for years for 6 hours a day at least with donations to aid my progression, and still dont stand a chance against those who played 15 years so how can any new player catch that? items themselfs are obtainable but pvp now consists of more then just items, dss,S skills,sashs,collecting boosters, i wouldnt say years work and completing nearly all pvp items +9 with good raritys just 10kk gold but ok, but like i said somebody like me with only 4-5 years gameplay cant go against the main pvpers so why would anybody else who has less then me try? the topic is getting pvpers to start pvping, but they cant because they will get crushed because of the gameplay gap between them its impossible to catch somebody who has mythic wheel when it takes 600w+ for each superclass yes im willing to lose any dss as many of those who ever spent so much to make mythic probly are also what is the need of mythic dss if nobody to fight with it because they get instantly crushed..if any major changes was to be made i would think putting a poll for those changes and go with the majority that way you are atleast pleasing most people :p

  • I don't like exxagerating in general even when it suits my argument.


    The server is 12 years old, this year. The items that players have cannot be older than 5 years. That because Rarity came on 2013 ish and more updates came after that. So from time to time, certanly not without heavy complains as usual, players had their items done from zero again.


    This process on a normal mmo is done every year, or two, but here not because there is this mentality.


    So is it a fact that doing items to compete with those who plays since years is hard? Yes it is.


    Is it a fact that doing Mythic DSS is hard? Yes it is


    Is it a fact that some players have Mythic DSS because the played before you? Nope.


    It is a new thing for you as it was for them. If they have it, they simply did teamplay, which you didn't.


    There are 3-4 main guilds that works hard so that all their members gain the same level of power. And then there are other guilds which just don't do that. You want the Mythic DSS while playing solo and complain that others who plays in team manage to do it before you. It is pretty normal and i don't consider it a problem.

  • rarity may have come in 2013 yes but that doesnt mean everybody from then had 0 gold they had other equipment and valuable things accumalted over time over the years gold always exsisted from the server from the start. do i believe its fair to make a newcomer as strong as somebody who played for years OFC NO but i disagree with the 2nd mythic dss "fact" also the mechanics as i said was brutal somebody can do 200 runs meley and gain 10 mythic dss and make 1 superclass from that another can get 150+ mythical and still not obtain it its luck that is the other deciding factor not teamwork, and this discussion is off topic the whole idea was to create more pvpers so people are happy im adressing the reasons why, and the reasons is quite simply the mechanics on the DSS combined with the hardship of making skills items sash's is hard so there isnt many people in that catagory who can compete also i dont understand the people work as a team part since they only do the same runs as we do and most runs are solo, maybe you are talking about ochao but thats offlimit to anybody who is not of the 3-4 guilds like you said but thats how it is. which is why there isnt lots of high level pvpers but instead people like me who are just trying there best thats all :P.im happy to continue the server as it is but we all must think of the real reasons behind why there is little pvp in the server and these reasons are above ^.^

  • Yeah if you don't like RNG you choosed the wrong game. Game not server. If you realise now that one can fail 10 times at +9 while another can succed 3 items at +9 in a row then i don't know what to say.


    You were one of those players, which when meley was released said it was impossible to do it. 1 hour later you were proved wrong, 1 minute later you bitched that it could only be done in a group. Eh...yes? Maybe now with the boosters and pvm skins you can solo it, but before, you couldn't, not because it was impossible, but because you had no team to play with, by your own choice.


    Runs are all solo because you guys cryed that you couldn't share the drops in group. We made Hydra and meley with a group reward and some of you had the guts to pm us asking to make it easier so they could solo runs with their 20000 characters.

    You guys are simply impossible to deal with. And the reason why most of the polls are not even taken into consideration as the general opinion, is because you don't really have one. Today you want things you don't have, like in your case mythic DSS. Tomorrow you want others to prevent what you have achieved.