Suggestions for highlvl pvp

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  • HadorisHUN

    oh okey, thanks the info!

  • [GM]Elspeth

    they were just added to the hunter ranking

  • [GM]Elspeth

    The metins arent new, Hadoris. They were in enchanted Forest the entire time

  • HadorisHUN

    Where are the new 110-120 metin stone guys?

  • [GA]Shadow

    Server on

  • 100pcentTSK

    - a moment of silence to show some respect for Zum -

  • L0lu

    There is an info about costumes, DSS and new Dungeon from [GA]Shadow, but it seems some poeple are just too lazy to check those topics first.

  • L0lu

    ALmoSIQaR Instead of whining, you should take 5 min. and check the latest Patch notes and responds under them.

  • ALmoSIQaR

    everyone aspires to get the best

  • ALmoSIQaR

    and we need something for dcc like changer we spent alot of gold and we got clean super class

  • ALmoSIQaR

    we need new runs and new maps and new costumes and new pets and new mounts

  • ALmoSIQaR

    the game now like metin2 in 2013 all things old

  • ALmoSIQaR

    we want somethings new in our game

  • ALmoSIQaR


  • yusupheu

    omg will they add meley's lair to the game

  • PrometheusX

    would that be an easy fix?

  • PrometheusX

    Shadow you can't right click beans into the refinement window anymore after they were moved to the extra inventory

  • L0lu

    xCesarz They should be dropping all day, just like moons.

  • xCesarz

    Hexagonal time drop? 19-24?

  • Hiumi

    Then? What will happen?

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  • Hey,

    as it is right now players do very little dmg in high lvl scrambles vs players with high res(even tho the attacking side had good vs and other boosts)

    The main reason for this is:

    - Non-scaling of weapons AV. This is the main problem imo for the low dmg output in pvp. In the past this system was fine because changers were hard to get and it was much harder to roll high bonus tiers so there were very few players with nearly or maxed out reses.(Choosing between old and new stats while rolling was a significant change). Then we have rarity on top of that for even more dmg mitigation, pendants are basically for free, costumes, high demi res on yea, you get quite tanky. Up until 75 every new weapon has normal scaling and the you have 92 and 105 weapons which have the same exact av as a 65 weapon and you gain what exactly?... some extra demi that scales very poorly and is mitigates by all the res, and then for 105 weapons you get some more demi that again, p much gets mitigatet entirely and some extra stats which are actually really nice to have. AV though stays the same... As an example for everyone: On SG(just like it would have been on US) a Rune Sword +9 has 257-287, up until +8 it has 227-233 which is actually lower than a sirius +9. A Sirius has 237-277 from +0 to +9 which is the same exact AV as a battle sword +9(lvl 65). Meanwhile on the other webzen servers a Rune Sword has 403-457 at +9.

    We talked about this very briefly Shadow and your argument against scaling was that you didn't want 105 weapons to be the only way to play, but that's so wrong tho...using the same logic why ever scale weapons ever? People are lvling and upgrading their gear because they want to have a feeling of improvement and actually see some differences after you dump all your money into an item) I'll repeat myself: the non-scaling system worked fine in the past when it was really difficult to get stats and such, but that's soooo long ago. Now we really need some proper scaling like on the other servers(Even though you're saying that we're not pvping enough to warrant a patch, well it's true that in low lvl and mid lvl range barely anyone is interested about it but this isn't about them, this is only for high lvl players where there's still some pvp - you even added a semi-pvp run in the last patch). Also I doubt this is hard to implement considering you managed to add in plenty QoL features already.

    Another strong argument for this change is the removal of stun-lock. If you have some decent res now you can just run(especially archers and mages) vs many players at once.

    Another suggestions would be regarding alchemy(HIJACKING Soon's discussion I guess, sry xD): the latest updates were in the right direction but it still barely solved anything. It is true that the amount of alchemy on the server increased but the server is p much in the same place: people just managing to get minor(maybe low) tier stones. Getting a stone paste antique is way too hard(up chances are very low and you require too many stones for a single attempt).

    I would suggest either keeping the same nr requirement for upping towards legendary(with some HIGHER upp rates) and then for clarity grade have only 2 needed for all tiers.

    Another quality of life change: increase the duration of alchemy please. The potion from item mall restores 8 hours while the stones last for 4; you weren't against increasing the time on them when I last asked you Shadow so this would be nice and I assume very fast to do.

    Sry for the messy formatting and the wall of text

    I will edit this post if I get more ideas.

    Awaiting some proper responses from staff.

    Have a good day!

  • Rune Sword gives 237-277 from +0 to +9, at +9 it shows higher AV but it's a visual bug, just equip a rune sword+9 and you'll see. Same goes for the other 105 weapons.

    And yes, only 12 STR bonus for upgrading it to epic+9 doesn't make much sense, an AV boost of these weapons would help solving the problem, even though I'm confident that when everyone has the new pvp armour and helm the lack of damage problem be reduced on raids, however 1v1 will still be broken.

  • A Rune Sword +8 has the same stats as a Sirius +0 / +9 Battle Sword+9, not less. At +9 is a bit higher. But bare in mind that you create these weapons with a generous gift, the one to keep the bonus that you had. So you can't expect that it is transformed in a 2000 AP weapon. It may be not worth but stats shows that every top has a Rune +9. Also weapons scale, but they scale pretty low and resonable, except for the 65, there is a jump of 100 but the rest of the weapons ingame have little differences in scale, they don't go from 270 to 450 or 500.

    What I always said and always will say, was that the low damage issue is also on level 90. So raising the damage only for 105 or above is pretty idiotic, since you are not solving the problem you are doing an update for a handful of players only, while the rest will suffer the same problem. Not to mention that I don't expect that a level 90 will win against a 105, but the difference in damage will be too high and this is not ok

    If you compare servers you must compare them properly. They don't have the bonus vs race that can be rolled on several piece of equipment, so is normal that their base damage is higher, even if it is too high. And before someone distorce my words once more, I am not saying our pvp is flawless, but is certanly better than theirs. Not only their skills are useless, since their hits makes even more damage than our hits, but they have ridiculous stones that pretty much can 1 skill everyone with the odds in favor. It is a far west duel, the first who shoot 99% times wins. I don't think thats the right direction and I know players likes big number, but Metin2 is not a good game with big numbers due to how bad the formulas are written.

    The issue is the resistance and not the damage. Cause there are certain piece of equipment who are used by almost all levels, like the ebony earrings, while weapons differs. What I am trying to say is that a level 75 a level 90 and a level 120, currently use the same items except for weapon and of course chest armor. By raising the weapon damage for the level 105 + we are not fixing anything, cause a 120 may do damage to other 120 and 110 and 100 and 75, but the rest of the players won't. So again is not a matter of attack, is a matter of resistance, it should be nerfed, but we all saw how players react to these kind of changes, so forgive me if i am not thrilled to head the same nonsense accusations that we nerf something so that a player from blue or from yellow could be on top, cause one thing is saying you did not like the update another is doing witch hunt.

    As stated in the past, Alchemy is meant to be done by high levels. Low levels or medium levels have little to no use for the alchemy, since the game is already super easy. As a matter of fact you can drop Legendary stone directly or Ancient even and even more common Rare stones. It is done to make the high level worth since players complained it was not. Basically if you want to stay low level is ok, but if you want easy alchemy level up.


  • Sry if u missunderstood, didn't mean the 105 weapons only, 90s aswell ofcourse. And yes, the direction the other servers were headed is also flat-out wrong. they deal insane amount of dmg there and with every new update they add even more. I'm not saying that we should have very high OP stats on the weapons, but they need some buffs nonetheless, especially since the stun-lock change made it much harder to kill players. So basically there should be a bigger difference between 65 92 and 105 weapons but not too massive. The high lvl pvp here compared to there is much better and it just needs a small boost in dmg, via weapons buffs(again, I'm not suggesting ridiculous changes here), maybe some nerfs to reses could work, maybe to how res is calculated in general.

    And about alchemy now...I understand that alchemy is aimed for high lvls and it's fine, but with the success rates right now, you struggle very hard to get a stone past low class regardless of level, the REQUIREMENTS for clarity upgrades are too high and then maybe you get a high class or even a super class after a very large investment but you get a blank stone which is practically worthless.

    While we are on the topic of dmg and such, are you still planning on releasing some sort of Shoulder piece system here?

  • Shadow, you say a lvl 90 has a hard time to win against a lvl 105.. Let me tell you 1 thing, there is little to no difference between a lvl 90 and a 105 (only the bio quests). You level to 105 and expect some DMG BOOST from your lvl 105 +9 weapon but all you get is a very low, INSIGNIFICANT dmg boost.

    You said that your statistics show that top players have lvl 105 +9 weapons... I trust your statistics but... there are so FEW lvl 105 +9 weapons because they are worthless (nto because they are hard to make they are just a super BAD DESIGN and players realise that). Please check every single one of that "top player" and see how many lvl 105 weapons they have (i would bet they have like 1 or at most 2) and the other weapons are lvl 80-90 ones.

    The new armours are a great example of great game design. You level to 115 and try to make your armour+9 in order to keep up with the other players, because the armour is just very strong and you NEED IT. That armour is something that made so many players level up to lvl 113-115. You will never see something like this with the lvl 105+9 weapons because you do not need it, a lvl 90 +9 weapon brings no benefit, you do not level 105 because of that weapon and it is a waste of money to make a lvl 105 +9 weapon right now.

  • @PrometheusX

    We have to think about all class, boosting a weapon AP is not an option with the current formulas, because it has little impact on skills compared to hits. Warriors will deal more damage with hits and skills as well as suras, while the rest will simply do more damage with skills. This is the issue on the server you mentioned, some players even linked me a video of one assassin doing skills for 1500 damage top, while the warrior of the same level just smashed spacebar doing 3000-4000 per hit. It was a joke and it is the resultof having a 500 AP weapon.

    The alchemy drop is very generous and the success rates are the same as they were since day one and probably the same as in every server. Maybe whats different is the number of gem required to the upgrade, but with the ability to drop directly Ancient or Legendary I don't feel there is a need for a change. As for the clarity issue, there is a reset bonus (which resets the number of bonus as well) and a change bonus for DSS too, we will see when and if is ok to implement it.

    [GA]Null is already working on a Sash system.


    No I did not say that, I actually said exactly what you said, a level 90 has the same damage issue of 105 and above. I said to all the 105s who suggested me to raise the damage of the runes to 400 or 500, that is idiotic to do it, cause the gap between 90 and 105 will be insane. While I agree that a 90 should win against a level 105 only with superior bonus, that kind of difference would be too much, which is why I repeat again, is not the damage the issue, is the resistance.

    Also, a Sword that allows you to keep the bonus shouldn't have a huge boost. And to ask your questions, there are characters with 3-4 Rune Swords, some characters, alts probably, are naked with just a Rune sword+9 equipped. The total number of Rune+9 on the server is 81, Rune+8 87, Rune+7 23 and so on. There is only 1 Rune Sword+1, this shows how much easy is to upgrade your things here.

    I think these numbers are clear, consider also that we don't have so many 105s+ players, maybe players are masochists, to upgrade this useless sword several times XD. Jokes aside, I saw players wasting wons and wons to socket a monster +6 on a silly FMS+9, when they could pretty much make a whole set which would make their game so easy and less frustrating, but they didn't. A 7% more is not a big difference just like is not a big difference some AP and some Status points, but still... :)

    So you may say is useless, or that it doesn't give enough boost to make it feel worth your time to level up, but the numbers says otherwise and we base on numbers.

  • Yea, ok...skill dmg needs a formula change. Skill based classes have a big disadvantage right now, reason why everyone is just resorting to hit dmg instead because they do laughable dmg with their skills(1-2 k skills vs 20-30k hp pools is really sad).

    As for the dss stat changer, that could be an interesting idea.

  • Yes hits are overpowered, especially in 1v1 but that's another story. On raid it's still also a problem but not such a great one - in my opinion it's only for people that made their gear based on skill resistance instead of average damage resistance/block.

    Personally speaking, skills are a bigger threat than hits to me on raids, and you also have to consider that the Magical Attack bonus is currently bugged, and when it gets solved, BM suras and Mages that have the new lv100 helm, ruby earrings, the new pvp armour and decent VS/demi/INT on their gear will deal really a lot of damage. I think they will easily deal 4-5k uncrit skills even on people with decent resistance, and if they push VS damage to 1 class they can deal 6k+ even against an opponent with good resistance.

    Also, I do not agree with the statement that increasing the Attack Value of weapons will put hits even more overpowered compared to skills. I believe if you tell me that the formula benefits hits the most, but at this moment hits are just a "bigger deal" because of their "pierce" component, not because of their "normal" component. The "pierce" part of the hit will stay constant regardless of the AV of the weapon, the only thing that influences it is if you have Average Damage on your gear/dss. Increasing the AV of weapons will only increase the "normal" component of the hit that is generally very low now, and as this component rises, the "pierce" component stays constant. E.G Imagine if I do 200 normal hit, 200+700=900 pierce hit, 200x2+700= 1100 critical-pierce hit, and I do 3k skill (this is a realistic scenario on a raid nowadays). If you increase the weapon's attack value drastically, the normal hit will go from 200 to 500 and the pierce will still add 700, so it will be 500 normal hit, 500+700 pierce hit, 500x2+700 crit-pierce hit. However, the skill will rise to 4,5k, which is much more significant (even though it increased 50% (3 --> 4,5 compared to 150% of the hit 200 --> 500). My point here is that, when increasing the AV, it doesn't affect the pierce component, and therefore hits will not increase that much compared to skills. Adding more, as AV rises, the "overpowered pierce surplus" that we complain so much about will lose relevance in the total hit damage. Adding even more, average damage resistance/block are great bonuses because they affect the entire hit damage, which means that if you increase AV it will increase the hit partially, whereas the resistance for hits will decrease the hits in totality. Imagine if you have a house and when you try to warm it up, you only are able to increase the temperature on the living room and in the bathrooms, but when you try to decrease the temperature it affects all the house's divisions, so the net result is that temperature reduction is more powerful than it's increase. On the other hand, the effect of AV in rising skills is total and it's resistance is also total. So my conclusion is that, increasing the AV of weapons will have a stronger effect on Skill Damage than Hit Damage, which will help Skill Damage being more relevant in raid situations. I don't know if you agree with my analysis and only testing will corroborate if that's really the effect, but a 12 stat point gain for epic weapons 105 is a bit laughable since they still require pearls and compasses to be upgraded and many people only upgrade them to shine more and because they wrongly think that at +9 it really gives more attack value when it doesn't.

    The post was edited 3 times, last by Skyquake ().

  • Hey guys,

    So, once again, you managed to turn a simple thread in a flame pool and once again, I am going to warn you that when you reply to a thread you must stick to the theme of that thread, not starting to attack each other which in this case is suggestions to the High level PvP.


    Kind Regards,


  • That was exactly my point, his intention was never to bring anything constructive to the discussion...

    Anyway, back to it:

    I really want to see the magic dmg bug fixed(if it is indeed a bug) and then we might need some buffs for Hit-based classes.

    And yea, I understand Shadow that the fact that we're allowed to keep the stats of the weapons when we upgrade them to the next tier warrants lesser gains on the base values, but as it is right now there are barely any gains. I'm sure many players upgrades their 92 weapons to 105 without even looking at the stats. But right the only weapons worth upgrading to 105+9 are fans and the dragon tooth blade because 12 int offers a lot to those classes. I'm sure we can find a middle ground between a worthwhile upgrade and something that isn't broken.

    Slightly off-topic Shadow : What's the reason behind not having an epic bell?

  • Magic attack was and is, always bugged on Metin2. We simply added a small formula to make it valuable somehow, but it simply add the amount to your damage. So basically if you have 300 Magic Attack buff, you raise your damage by 300. 300 AP raise the damage for melee class by much more. It is currently bugged, yes, but after we fix it don't expect such a big difference.

    Some years ago when we were adding the Epic Bell, there was a huge complains from certain players, basically was either making it stronger than the fan, and whoever had a fan did not like the idea, on the other hand who wanted a bell did not want something inferior or equal to the fan, cause otherwise, whats the point?

    So we agreed with "whats the point" of creating a rift and be blamed for adding something that doesn't change anything.