[CHANGE] bringing together older & newer players in terms of PvM

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  • heya i had an idea how to bring together older & newer players in terms of PvM, especially dungeons.


    if you want to do a run what are the things you need? or actually what are you looking for?
    me personally:


    -do i have gear that is strong enough?
    -do i have guild mates that play the right class to support me?
    -if not can i find another player with the right class AND is well geared enough?
    -how do we split the loot? we sell all and divide it? we do 2-3 runs(depending on the players needed) and everyone gets 1 run for hisself? i pay him to support me?


    so basically its alot to check and would i ask newer players which i dont know to do runs together? to be honest no.
    why?
    -i dont know if we can do it
    -i cant be sure he does what i asked him(for example we do 2 runs 1 loot for each, may he have time for a 2nd one? or may he take his drop and say he has to go offline?)


    so the only way id do a run with a newer player is if he´s a dragon mage and i pay him each run.



    so my suggestion is pretty simple


    -remove ALL drops from the dungeon & dungeon bosses.
    -let an npc spawn after the run was done successfully which gives you a loot chest for participating in this run(to every player)
    -the chest should have a worse loot than the bosses have right now


    why?


    -we could fill groups of 6-8 with less well geared and pretty much random people to do the runs and still succeed it
    -no problems with loot sharing anymore and abusing with multiaccounts isnt possible because of the new restrictions
    -any classes can do the runs no need to have certain farming accounts(1 warrior 1 mage can do it yes but also 4 random characters can do it even if you cant find a mage to support you) and all have the same benefits from the runs
    -new players that are relatively new to the higher lvls without the pro pvm gears can join those runs and benefit from it



    exact example:


    ill take the hell run as example since its probably the most common run in highlvl nowadays:


    the 2 possibilities:


    like it is right now:


    my example, i do it with a guildmate that supports me on his buffer and i do the run pretty much solo and he gets 1x loot then i get 1x loot etc
    -> 2 older players that farm together


    how it could be:


    me as older player looks for a group to do the hell run, lets say i find 4 players 1 warrior 1 assassin 2 suras
    we can do the run without someone logging his 2nd character as buffer since the damage is more than enough to complete it even with semi good gears.
    we could do this right now too? yes, but the problem will be about the loot, its because we´re greedy? probably yes if you farm you want to get rewarded for sure.
    so it makes it very simple everyone got his loot in 1 single run(it will be less than before) but you dont have the problem that you have to do like 4 runs to get everyone rewarded.


    --> new and older players can farm together and all can benefit the same way from it (MASS OVER CLASS)


    so for a loot chest for hell run it could look like this:


    the items can stay the same but cut the percentages by lets say 50%,


    flamekey(100%) --> 50%




    let me know your opinions


    regards

  • I think the drop is gonna be too much bro:D


    If me + you farm one run, theres place for 6 more, so imagine, 6 more drops for everyone. thats too much.
    30 minutes for 8 drops. lets say 30 min for 4 flamekey since 50% drop.


    idk boss, but .. No :D love you

    Never gave in
    Never gave up
    Im the only thing im afraid of.


    HowHigh

  • I think the drop is gonna be too much bro:D


    If me + you farm one run, theres place for 6 more, so imagine, 6 more drops for everyone. thats too much.
    30 minutes for 8 drops. lets say 30 min for 4 flamekey since 50% drop.


    idk boss, but .. No :D love you

    :D yeah bro maybe there is the difficulty to find a fitting percentage but lets take into consideration the idea itself, the percentage etc are things who needs to be tested very well and decided then.

  • In general, not bad but let's not forget the "human factor".


    In aperfect world we would take new players with us into the run but the most like scenario is:
    The players doing those runs would still benefit the most since we would maybe even take random players (mostly buffers as you mentioned) few times (2 out of 10?) if we feel like it.
    Even mostly those would be our friends or guild members.


    Even if we take someone new to each run, someone who isn't even helpful. Would that player continue to advance or he would rather stay as he is, waiting for others to do the job?
    Especially buffers.


    If this would be suggested as a new run, wouldn't even sound so bad. But for all the runs? No.
    It would also take away the randomness and excitement of drops.


    Furthermore, rewarding each player with a chest would overflow the market with items.
    What would prevent me and my partner to do the runs solo 24/7?


    These are my thoughts. Maybe I am seeing it differently but in general, only those who are able to do the runs would still do them as they are doing them now with one difference: they get even more richer.


    It could benefit newer/weaker players a little but for the few who already keep the monopoly.
    Is it worth it?


    If players really want/need something they will find a way.


    Example: Erebus Run, since you mentioned difficulties with finding the team and the time.
    We did numerous runs till each of our guild member and player we did it with didn't get the armor.
    Maybe it was difficult to organize the runs but with a little planning and teaming up, we did it.


    If you take someone unknown with you in the run, maybe he will fool you, maybe he wont do the second run or for whatever reason might be, just don't give him a second chance.
    Look for another, more reliable player.


    Once again, this is just my point of view.

  • YaY wrote:

    In aperfect world we would take new players with us into the run but the most like scenario is:
    The players doing those runs would still benefit the most since we would maybe even take random players (mostly buffers as you mentioned) few times (2 out of 10?) if we feel like it.
    Even mostly those would be our friends or guild members.

    yes the players doing those runs benefit the most but one important point would change, which is that newer players would be those players too who benefit since they´re able to join the runs.




    YaY wrote:

    It would also take away the randomness and excitement of drops.

    i think not, since the drop can be exactly the same the only difference is that you click on a chest to receive it and that every player will receive it(less of it in a single run).





    YaY wrote:

    What would prevent me and my partner to do the runs solo 24/7?

    nothing prevents you from farming 24/7 but the point is you wont benefit more from doing it solo with your partner 24/7 than a player that farms it 24/7 with a group of random people(even less probably since a group of 4-6 less well geared chars will do it faster.) and exactly thats the point for this suggestion.







    YaY wrote:

    It could benefit newer/weaker players a little but for the few who already keep the monopoly.
    Is it worth it?

    It benefits the weaker ones yes and is it worth it for the ones who got the monopoly right now? no its not worth it since more ppl will have access to those runs then. but thats the point.






    YaY wrote:

    Example: Erebus Run, since you mentioned difficulties with finding the team and the time.
    We did numerous runs till each of our guild member and player we did it with didn't get the armor.
    Maybe it was difficult to organize the runs but with a little planning and teaming up, we did it.

    yes we did the same way and it worked out aswell but thats because we both me and you have a guild and a group of friends of older players, but what about a player that lately reached lets say lv100-105, now the content for this new update is released, he wont be able to participate in it at all, maybe if he´s lucky he is able to join few runs if he´s actively asking other players alot.



    thanks for your point of view

  • Shadow already said on a post that to increase the 1 drop for each team mate would have to turn the game to 1 account only, because what stops a player that has 2-3-4 + chars to make a certain run? the 1 IP per run rule is for multiple account on same run but cool down is given by account not by IP i think. So a player with more than 1 account can exploit easily that run by doing the run on different accounts and get 1 drop each time, and the chance of getting a flame key (using your example of hell run) would have to be so low that you might be doing a run for no one to get any.
    and now take in consideration runs without cool down like DT or DC, the amount of boss boxes that would be in game. The chance of getting an SC item from gahnasel box would have to be close to same as blacksmith diamond from Blue Death or market would be flooded with an item that is not supposed to be common.

    Yo ho ho and a bottle of Rum...

  • Shadow said it:


    You can't exploit cooldown. For DT/Catacomb they can easily set a cooldown.

    Our mind is like a cloudy sky: in essence clear and pure, but overcast by clouds of delusions. Just as the thickest clouds can disperse, so, too, even the heaviest delusions can be removed from our mind.

  • Shadow said it:


    You can't exploit cooldown. For DT/Catacomb they can easily set a cooldown.

    cooldown is not by IP, how is that not exploitable? if you have 10 chars on different accounts you can do the run 10 times straight. that comment from shadow is regarding people making the run alone with their own chars only.

    Yo ho ho and a bottle of Rum...

  • Read here page 2. Questions from bombardieru and answers from shadow.

    Our mind is like a cloudy sky: in essence clear and pure, but overcast by clouds of delusions. Just as the thickest clouds can disperse, so, too, even the heaviest delusions can be removed from our mind.

  • Read here page 2. Questions from bombardieru and answers from shadow.

    JK was asking first about his friend using his char, and after when he asked about running with more accounts what shadow replies is not that is bannable offense, he wrote "Our goal is to let you play with new people and not organize in 2 so that you can exploit the cool down with your many many and many characters.
    Otherwise as we previously discussed, we would be forced to cut drasticaly the number of characters or accounts that you can own on this server."
    basically if people start abusing they might have to cut the number of accounts you have, not that it is impossible to exploit, which JP also mentioned, that should be IP cool down, not account cool down. Also didn't read anything about, you do that we ban you perm.


    doesn't make sense to remove drops. when i needed outside people to help me and my wife to do some of the runs, we asked different people because some weren't trustworthy or fair playing. those we only invited once and never again. But others we found that were nice and fair to play with so we did many runs with them and always without a problem.
    instead of something like "remove all drops" or "give a box to everyone that will drop only crap" maybe try different people to do the run with?
    when i do erebus run i hardly go with same people all the runs. we go with whom is available. same for ice run. and if today i don't get the good drop, tomorrow i will, not gonna cry about that. also can agree on selling the item and split the gold, which can be given before you even sell the drops since it's not like drops are worth 500kk that you can't give half of the worth of the drops after run. and if you don't trick the other layer, that player will accept to do more runs with you.

    Yo ho ho and a bottle of Rum...


  • ' this is one of those loopholes that i mentioned earlier '
    ' one of those loopholes '


    So he says you shouldn't somehow find ways to exploit cooldown. Cooldown is a limit. Limits exist for reasons. I think it's easy to understand for you.


    There are many kind of dungeons anyway. You can do others while cooldown.

    Our mind is like a cloudy sky: in essence clear and pure, but overcast by clouds of delusions. Just as the thickest clouds can disperse, so, too, even the heaviest delusions can be removed from our mind.

  • it is just pointless to waste time when you focus only on the part of the conversation that fits your narrative and disregard all the rest. you take the internet for today.

    Yo ho ho and a bottle of Rum...

  • yes i repeat myself because he doesn't get it. i didn't say anything about the suggestion i just liked it and clicked +1 button because he tries to give solutions at least. what i did was showing what admin said about cooldown skip tricks. because thepirate seems worried only about that part. it's a cheap excuse to reject the suggestion.


    with new rules you can't enter the dungeon with more than one char, the chars in the dungeon can't belong to same person, you can't teamup with somebody and finish a run then in cooldown enter with 2nd accs; so how would you skip the cooldown? Buy a +6 stone of cooldown?

    Our mind is like a cloudy sky: in essence clear and pure, but overcast by clouds of delusions. Just as the thickest clouds can disperse, so, too, even the heaviest delusions can be removed from our mind.

  • not to mention that nothing, nowhere, at any time was put in the terms: you do 2 runs with 2 different chars you get banned, i'll give another try on dissecting the idea.


    idea: lets ban all drops from dungeons/bosses and give 1 box to each participant (lets not count that Shadow already said that for that would have to turn the game into 1 account per player only)


    there are many dungeons in game: orc maze, plague, DT, DC, ice, dragon, hell, erebus.


    DT we can rule out because without a mage not possible to do due to mandatory buffs for elite demon king and blue death (keep in mind that the idea is "any classes can do the runs no need to have certain farming accounts")
    for the same reason Plague is ruled out since you always need a sin, and by extent rule out Ice because mage and sin are mandatory.
    Lets rule out DC because unless you take 5 or 6 warriors/suras to kill boss, most damaging classes on gahnasel are sin and mage as it is well known. and if you are warrior or sura only run, not doable with so and so gear, you need specific stats for the run.(keep in mind "we could fill groups of 6-8 with less well geared and pretty much random people to do the runs and still succeed it"). less well geared players wont make this run. at least half, without mage or sin, would have to be pretty well geared.
    Dragon run without buff would be interesting to see when all parties doing the run use 100% of times a buffer and many times a healer. so lets rule this one out also.


    we are left with Orc, hell and erebus, and the number of dungeons under discussion keeps getting smaller.


    Erebus run without buffs i honestly don't think possible. Never tried and don't know anyone that tried. A bit because of the damage that the 3rd wave deals, but mostly about the damage to the boss. Anyway you can't do that run with 6 or 8 so and so players. you need most of the team to have pretty decent gear to kill 3rd wave and boss. (again moves away from the idea "we could fill groups of 6-8 with less well geared and pretty much random people to do the runs and still succeed it")


    So we are left with Orc and Hell, and things get interesting now.


    we might think that Porki is talking about those 2 runs but lets be honest, since he even mentions flame key. So, basically the whole dungeons system should be changed in all dungeons for all players because one player doesn't want to share the drops from hell run, or doesn't want to try to do runs with a random player because he might loose a flame key or a pearl or pendent?
    And we aren't talking about any player, we are talking about one of the strongest players in game that is in one of the strongest guilds in game, with some of the strongest players in game.
    That is the foundation of this idea, a player that wants to do a run, but doesn't want to risk to make 1 run with an ahole that might keep the drop and not do second run, or doesn't want to share the drop from 1 run with someone to help him. And for that all dungeon game play should be changed to accommodate his way of farming and the way that is more profitable for him, semi-disguised as an idea to bring players to do runs together.


    And also, if there is a problem in making 2 runs to get 1 flame key, there isn't a problem in making 5 runs and get 0 due to the decrease of chance to get 1 from a box? because it couldn't be lowered to 50%. now is 100%, since max people in party is 8, meaning 8 boxes, you would have to divide 100% by 8 at least, which is 12,5% but still means that you can do 10-20-30 runs without getting a single drop. This seems good?


    Just as an example:
    When me and my wife couldn't do DC, we would take random people to help and share drops. We encountered aholes that kept all drop and we didn't invite those for any other run, we also encountered pretty nice people. Now on Ice run and Erebus run we started playing with people we never met and guess what, almost all of them are damn nice friendly people.


    cheerz

    Yo ho ho and a bottle of Rum...